Santa

[Aimee Yermish]

Thanks to all of the thoughtful replies...

I wanted to address one issue, which is that of Eliyahu. Yes, our
uncles used to distract us and take a little sip to convince us that
Eliyahu had really come. But Eliyahu doesn't do anything at the Seder
other than to drink his wine (or not) and to not announce the messianic
age. No presents. No judging between bad kids and good kids (and, by
the way, if Santa only brings presents to good kids, does that mean that
Jewish kids are by definition bad? The theological implications are,
er, interesting...). Eliyahu is not that major a figure in the grand
scheme of things. He shows up in folktales as the mysterious stranger
who rewards the generous. Kids like him, but everyone I know gradually
transitioned from wide-eyed belief to a grownup understanding of reality
without any major trauma. The pretense that he comes to our Seders is
more harmless fun than it is major childhood mythology.

BTW, does anyone else here find it ironic that the holiday where we most
directly celebrate the freedom to avoid religious assimilation is the
one where we experience the most pressure to assimilate religiously?

--Aimee



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[Alexandra J Schmidt]

Post by Aimee Yermish
I wanted to address one issue, which is that of Eliyahu. Yes, our
uncles used to distract us and take a little sip to convince us that
Eliyahu had really come. But Eliyahu doesn't do anything at the Seder
other than to drink his wine (or not) and to not announce the messianic
age. No presents.

Well, there were presents earlier when the afikomen was retrieved. ;)

[...]

Post by Aimee Yermish
Eliyahu is not that major a figure in the grand
scheme of things. He shows up in folktales as the mysterious stranger
who rewards the generous. Kids like him, but everyone I know gradually
transitioned from wide-eyed belief to a grownup understanding of reality
without any major trauma.

But seriously, I would quibble with the notion that Eliyahu is not
a major figure at the Seder. The Seder focuses on the theme of
redemption at several levels--from the physical redemption of
the Exodus to the ultimate redemption of Moshiach. Eliyahu heralds
the latter, but another theme of the Seder is that we take a hand
in our own redemption (it's not something that just happens passively
to us, we need to make the world a better place in preparation for it,
and/or take that first jump into the Red Sea before it actually parts).
So the notion of Eliyahu's presence at our Seder is a significant
thing symbolically and not, I think, a notion to be grown out of.
Rather, I think it's something to be grown *into*--this is a concept
that a 2-year-old can't get, but a 5-year-old can begin to.

[...]

Post by Aimee Yermish
No judging between bad kids and good kids (and, by
the way, if Santa only brings presents to good kids, does that mean that
Jewish kids are by definition bad? The theological implications are,
er, interesting...).

Actually, if some kid had the insensitivity (it happens!) to tell my
kids that they must be bad if Santa wasn't bringing them anything, that
child's parents might get a phone call from me: "Your child is being
hurtful; the easiest thing for me to do would be to tell my child that
Santa's not real, but perhaps you'd like to talk to your child yourself?"

Post by Aimee Yermish
BTW, does anyone else here find it ironic that the holiday where we most
directly celebrate the freedom to avoid religious assimilation is the
one where we experience the most pressure to assimilate religiously?

Ein chadash tachat ha-shemesh! [There's nothing new under the sun!]
Yup. But if nothing else, the events leading up to the Maccabean
revolt are a useful context for discussing the idea of standing up
for what you believe in, especially when it's different from the
mainstream.

The other thing that amuses me is that much as we kick and moan about
the commercialization of Christmas, Chanukah was designed as a
commercial holiday as well. (Put that menorah right there in the
window! Publicize that miracle!) And the story about the oil is a
later addition (reflecting rabbinic discomfort with some of the
antics of the Hasmoneans)--as much an elaboration as Santa, lehavdil
[if you'll excuse the comparison].

. . .Alexandra


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[Fred Rosenblatt]

Post by Alexandra J Schmidt

Post by Aimee Yermish
I wanted to address one issue, which is that of Eliyahu. Yes, our
uncles used to distract us and take a little sip to convince us that
Eliyahu had really come. But Eliyahu doesn't do anything at the Seder
other than to drink his wine (or not) and to not announce the messianic
age. No presents.

Well, there were presents earlier when the afikomen was retrieved. ;)
[...]

Post by Aimee Yermish
Eliyahu is not that major a figure in the grand
scheme of things. He shows up in folktales as the mysterious stranger
who rewards the generous. Kids like him, but everyone I know gradually
transitioned from wide-eyed belief to a grownup understanding of reality
without any major trauma.

But seriously, I would quibble with the notion that Eliyahu is not
a major figure at the Seder. The Seder focuses on the theme of
redemption at several levels--from the physical redemption of
the Exodus to the ultimate redemption of Moshiach. Eliyahu heralds
the latter, but another theme of the Seder is that we take a hand
in our own redemption (it's not something that just happens passively
to us, we need to make the world a better place in preparation for it,
and/or take that first jump into the Red Sea before it actually parts).
So the notion of Eliyahu's presence at our Seder is a significant
thing symbolically and not, I think, a notion to be grown out of.
Rather, I think it's something to be grown *into*--this is a concept
that a 2-year-old can't get, but a 5-year-old can begin to.

And of course we mention Eliyahu and his significance as a precursor at
other time as well - every day in the Bircat Hamazon (which is also recited
at the seder - perhaps "Elijah's Cup" is an elaboration on that theme).

Post by Alexandra J Schmidt

Post by Aimee Yermish
No judging between bad kids and good kids (and, by
the way, if Santa only brings presents to good kids, does that mean that
Jewish kids are by definition bad? The theological implications are,
er, interesting...).

Actually, if some kid had the insensitivity (it happens!) to tell my
kids that they must be bad if Santa wasn't bringing them anything, that
child's parents might get a phone call from me: "Your child is being
hurtful; the easiest thing for me to do would be to tell my child that
Santa's not real, but perhaps you'd like to talk to your child yourself?"

Now you're talking!

Post by Alexandra J Schmidt

Post by Aimee Yermish
BTW, does anyone else here find it ironic that the holiday where we most
directly celebrate the freedom to avoid religious assimilation is the
one where we experience the most pressure to assimilate religiously?

Ein chadash tachat ha-shemesh! [There's nothing new under the sun!]
Yup. But if nothing else, the events leading up to the Maccabean
revolt are a useful context for discussing the idea of standing up
for what you believe in, especially when it's different from the
mainstream.

I think its more another example of the Talmudic dictum, "G-d never
sends a disease for which He hasn't first sent the cure."

Post by Alexandra J Schmidt
The other thing that amuses me is that much as we kick and moan about
the commercialization of Christmas, Chanukah was designed as a
commercial holiday as well. (Put that menorah right there in the
window! Publicize that miracle!)

Publicize doesn't necessarily mean commericalization. There is the
story of the man who went around offering the secret of longevity,
which turned out to be guarding one's tongue from lashon harah. While
it's easier to get people interested in something that they think is
worth money, I doubt if the "seller" actually earned a dime from his
advertizing blitz.


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This post reflects the author's opinion; the moderators' opinions may differ.
Posters seeking medical or halachic information should consult competent
authorities in those fields.

ACKs are handled by an autoresponder. Munged From:/Reply-To: means no ACKs.
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This forum discusses issues specific to childrearing in a Jewish context.
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